The lawsuit, filed Wednesday on behalf of . Good thing you werent serious, thatd be terr..uh.oops. Kyle . Legal Penalties. You arent a gunfighter, either. And they would not have done that for no reason at all. ), and the gun fell out of his pocket. They suck and Im awesome!, 2. SIG ultimately settled that lawsuit. Sig Sauer's headquarters are located in New Hampshire at Pease International Tradeport. I am still waiting for the UPS man (not from the devil but from Sig) I will not hold my breath. Holding the striker fully cocked with nothing to block it if the sear fails is questionable at best. In 2021 you would think a company would understand MIM metallurgy. But just the same- a gun going off from momentum? Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer and injured a director with a prop gun on the set of the film "Rust" and the distraught actor repeatedly asked afterwards why he . The problem with Sig is with their polymer pistols. 00:03. The SIG P320, which has been manufactured since 2014, is known to go off without the trigger being pulled if it's dropped and lands on the ground at a certain angle. TTAG talked to SIG Sauer about the P320 suits and the ABC reports. So park the Cops suck cause they aint gunfighters! bull**it. Theres a couple of possibilities. Oct 20, 2022 #36 ; vh20 said: . No Warp core, just a quantum singularity, The engine was basically a dorm fridge. Still waiting. And as far as Special Forces go, SF going to Glock has been documented as a bean counters solution to save money. Which in and of itself is user error / misuse. Glock's and Sig P320 are all designated as Double-Action-Only fire control mechanisms. Upgrades are for things that didnt work right in the first place. Remember the highly trained FBI officer whose gun went off in a nightclub? The thing is, youd probably need to generate many Gs of force in both directions simultaneously. three changes to the original design. A shame but then no one was hurt. Note the addition of ominous background music in the second seven-minutes-longer version (there was no music in the Good Morning America version). A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. It provides another example of how the gun free zone purportedly keeps people safe by not only keeping guns away, but by requiring more discharges nearby. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. BAM. Many gun makers have had issues with drop firing, unintended discharge, bad safeties This is a resource I compiled of semi-auto pistols that have been recalled or Upgraded for Safety related problems like Drop Firing, Safeties that Malfunction, Risk of Accidental Discharge, etc. Thats why the US Marines have Sigs. Quite frankly, a sizable number of the LEOs that go there, would benefit from a Gun Safety 101 class. Glocks have gone off when people attempted to holster them and after they have holstered them, some times way later after holstering them like the fellow that got into his pickup truck. If it were a lowered tier manufacturer like a Taurus having allegations made against them, people would run with it without thinking twice. The round went downrange so nobody was hurt. I can say we are aware of the statement released by SIG SAUER, said Maj. Amber Bineau. Again, these are examples the plaintiff in this case is using to support his claim that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. This reminds me of when Gretchen Carlson sued Fox News for sexual harassment and she got 20 million dollars. Second, your claim that the military is dumping because theyre problematic? Frankly, I think that ship is the best looking sci-fi ship design ever, with the Excelsior a very close second. MIM strikers made in India and put into Sigs. That a shirt tail or jacket cinch cord slips into a holster. The fact that Shatner was doing Wrath of Kahn meet and greets at 90 years old kind of soured me. He takes your wallet and car and leaves the SIG. Depending on who you talk to you will get many different answers. Really, that JJA ship looks like something the folks at PlaySkool built, its terrible. Just because someone shoots hyper-unrealistic 3 gun competition, subscribes to Recoil magazine and routinely watches their fave rave YouTube cult of personality channel shill for the latest company that paid him off doesnt make them a [emailprotected]$$. The VIP screening with the meet and greet was like $600. So are dumb(or arrogant) cops. So I will just continue to carry Mexican style with my striker fired polymer wonder nine from a company that may or may not be SIG. It was expensive. And it doesnt take too much Googling to find plenty of reports of LEOs suing the Georgia company as well (see here, here, here, and here for just a few). It has an unsafe takedown procedure that requires you to pull the trigger to get the slide off. ABC News ran two reports on the topic last week, highlighting one particular cop in Bridge City, Texas who is suing SIG for $15 million. In the former case, you would need upward movement coming to a sudden stop to bump up the drop safety at the same time you imparted rearward momentum to the gun to try and move the striker. To be sure, Ive informally asked every other owner of a Serpa holster when I meet them, whether they have ever had an ND because of the holster. Thats fine. Both companies, instead, took to pro-gun industry forums to offer a rebuttal, giving no opportunity to answer questions. The same should hold true for the insane marketing of pistols like the totally unsafe Glock. Who knows. I think in the end even if there is no mechanical defect (dont hold your breath) it will be found that the Sig is causing accidental discharges for the same reason the Glock does, because if you snag the trigger on the Sig model that does not have a manual safety (some do) the gun will accidentally fire. The problem is non-existent. . Sounds like most of these cases were off-body carry. All polymer guns are cheap, cheap, cheap to make, thats why I threw the Taurus name into the mix. You need to deliberately thumb the Pythons hammer back to get that trigger pull, each and every time. They are plaintiffs versions of what they say happened. On Nov. 5, 2020, a recently-purchased SIG Sauer P320 pistol went off unexpectedly at a training range in Dwyer Hill, outside of Ottawa. My gun just went off! Police officers do NOT get a lot of training unless theyre doing it on their own time at their own expense. Thats just myopic brand lust on parade. On Thursday, M.D. Yes, conspiracy to defraud is a thing when ones @ss is on the line. Had a buddy, years ago, that was a deputy for Orange County in California. Carrying a handgun in a purse, particularly one that isnt designed specifically to carry a firearm, is problematic at best. How many times does a pistol have to malfunction before you blame it? First I have no problem with the Mk 25 or any other Sig thats metal. Not too long after they sold a pistol to the public and United States military thats not even DROP SAFE?!? Then when the gun still wouldnt operate right, field stripped it and cleared the debris, but didnt understand the gun enough to realize it was now super broken. Heres the version of the report that ran later that night, during ABCs Nightline program . Being highly trained doesnt eliminate stupidity. Im reading about a moron who wraps a loaded firearm in a cloth and stuff it in a gym bag, and other dumb behavior that tells me the weapon isnt the problem but the user. Theyve also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. The weapons are currently on the shelf and the soldiers have returned to using their older model SIG P226s. It alleges that Walter Collette, Jr., a police officer with the Somerville (Mass.) I sold that pistol when I got it back. LOL! One of the officers a few years ago was carrying his P320 in a P226 holster that he took a Dremel to make the P320 fit. Remember the stupidity of the far right is infinite and the blind greed of the gun makers prove they could not care less about human life and suffering. Dont care for them, not my jam. The probable reason that some folks are saying that the P320 is unsafe is that there was a lawsuit filed in federal court in July of 2020 (Guay v. Sig Sauer) alleging that the 320 fired "un-commanded" without a trigger pull while in a holster. Too Many Accidents As a result, the P320s were withdrawn from service, leaving the JTF-2 with their older P226s. No you haters are not smarter than the US military, who tested the P320 far more than your favorite YouTuber ever did. Lastly, ship-wise I have to go with the TMP-era refit Enterprise, regardless of Captain. Yesterday, a Canadian news outlet, CBC News, published a story regarding the unintended discharge last year of a SIG P320 by a Canadian Special Operator, resulting in injury and his unit withdrawing the pistol from service. These officers are not gunfighters. With the 320, the striker is in full-cock position, and held there through the operation of the trigger sear and the positive striker-blocking safety. Ron, A few Warbirds decloaking would make me very nervous if it wasnt sci-fi fantasy. 3. Theyve now come to the attention of the legacy media. Much has been made of Nimoys Spock being the most popular character in TOS, but Id argue that without Shatners over-the-top swagger and brash manner, the balance would be lost. Once word of that got out there was an avalanche of sexual harassment lawsuits against Fox news. Covid ruined that gravy train for him but hes still doing the conventions. Without a loser pays tort system, such abuse will go on and on. NO, SIG has a problem that they would rather fight in court. In fact, I dont own ANY striker fired polymer pistol. When Villani was asked for his opinion of SIG Sauer, he said, I carry SIGs, I own SIGs, I just dont own a 320nor would I ever. When Scott asked Villani what he found when he took a P320 apart, he said, I thought Wow, they need to do their homework, they need to fix this gun.. I own Serpa holsters in multiple configurations (1911, Beretta 96, H&K, Springfield, etc) for most of the time theyve been around and I NEVER had an ND. Remember also that with a handful of notable exceptions, modern firearms do not just go off, no matter what is later claimed by those who may be held responsible. But Im observant enough to see the same voices that said in 1985 that This new fangled Glock is a just a plastic toy! The problems associate with those pistols (and the P365) have long since been ironed out. Heres the version that ran Tuesday morning during the networks Good Morning America program . It sure wasnt her fault though, because she was flooring the. You need a lead that can be the lightening rod and not be afraid to make an ass of themselvesit give the watcher permission to take it seriously. The Milwaukee Police Department reports "multiple unexplained accidental discharges" of the Sig Sauer P320 9mm, a gun all officers are required to carry, making for more than 1,600 firearms. Once investigated a shot fired into a roll top desk. The trigger bar has to push up on it, for it to release. They didnt see a problem at all and in fact, saw it as an upgrade over Glock. Maybe its a technical issue, maybe its a training issue. Face it, you paid far too much for a plastic gun. Oh, if you another thread reader asking Wheres the Sig/Glock bashing? 3 disaster is true and if it is Sig will go all out to cover it up if it was. His haste to avoid the embarrassment of his gun being seen on the floor turned the incident from a wardrobe malfunction (accidental exposure of a concealed weapon, probably just a reprimand from the OPR) into a negligent discharge (the gun being fired led to him personally getting fired!). The drop-bang thing only happened at a very narrow event window, it was only once the Internet doom-preachers figured out that narrow window and did it over and over online did it appear to be a thing. Sig adapted and changed the pistol sufficiently to prevent even that issue. There was nothing wrong with the Glock action, it was a training issue. Before the madness SIGS were expensive. She claims that her holstered P320 pistol went off while she was carrying it in her purse. The weapon had a history of going off unexpectedly when it was dropped at a certain angle. Asked if the guns in these cases could have been mishandled, Villani responds, When I see videos of police officers getting out of their car and their weapon discharges in their holsters, nah, theres a problem with the gun. ABC then ran bodycam footage of a pre-upgrade P320 firing as a Michigan state trooper exited his patrol car in 2016 with no mention of the results of any subsequent investigation. First, keep in mind that allegations made in lawsuits are not statements of fact. Too expensive to use their customers as beta testers. Going on Sigs reputation I bought a P320. Trying to categorically say Brand X is better than Brand Y! Its a novelty, its got issues! Thats the American system at work in all its corrupt majesty. Ironic that the trendsetters of yesteryear are trying to tear down the innovator of today because its Not perfected yet! and the Design isnt worked out!. Everyone knows Glocks are the absolute pinnacle of perfection and have never had one single defect ever! Hammer guns have a half cock notch for a reason. Canadas highly-trained counterterrorism force, JTF-2, is the only military unit with the SIG P320 in its inventory right now. On the other hand, would we also condemn him for violating Rule 2 if the bullet had travelled through his outside wall, entered the adjacent house, and killed a resident thereof, or would we maybe, just maybe, place some blame on the manufacturer who created the pistol? 01:10. This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. Cops are crap with guns, unlike me, a REAL pistolero! BTW it was HK that made the first polymer gun, Glock actually stole the idea for the G17 from them. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/. Really? Stinking Lawyers and quota cops. Right up front, the use of an ill-fitting/improper-for-the-gun holster instantly negates any idea of an unintended discharge being the fault of the design. To give you an example of early self-propelled lawn mowers if you lost your grip on the handles the mower would not shut off and it would take off on its own right down the street all by itself. Using an example from the first prong, we legitimately fault the user who shot himself in the palm, rightfully asking why in the WORLD his palm was in front of the muzzle when he set the gun down. At rest, cocked, it may very well have enough oomph to set some primers off. A plastic gun that has a tendency to go off by itself. For the moron Neanderthals of the Far Right who will scream its the operators fault and we do not give a shit about marketing more safer designed weapons, if such idiotic polices were followed for other consumer goods today we would not have safety glass, anti-lock breaks, back up safeties, child proof medicine caps and chemical bottles, back up cameras, kick back muzzles on chain saws and the list goes on and on. But the reality is that the military has been using the Sig P320 for almost 5 years and they show no signs of changing. The P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost . The Nightline segment includes an interview with Major Peter Villani, an expert (paid) witness for Hilton. In June, Cambridge police Lt. Thomas Ahern filed suit, accusing Sig Sauer of selling a dangerously defective product after his P320 fired on its own while he was in the department's SWAT team van with six other officers. Watching all these Glock fan boys drool over these lawsuits in their tribal brand-lust is like watching the talking heads on CNN announcing Trump lost the 2020 election. Mechanical engagement of sear to striker not deep enough (wanted lighter, smoother trigger pull without giving it any hand workmanship required with the deep notch much safer classic systems made since 1900) Result another big fail. And they think hey have an actual legit lawsuit on their hands? brakes, remember? saw the video, doesnt explain how it bypasses striker pin safety. Its interesting that ABC chose to leave that point out of one of their reports. (The defect couldnt be duplicated after the crash.). I carry one in my front pocket routinely. 3) If the sear fails, there is the drop safety in the way of the striker. Sig fanboys are almost as bad as Glock fanboys. Its also beyond debate that current production Sig quality is drastically inferior to what it once was, particularly the German made pieces. No the devil went down to Georgia to learn how to play a fiddle. Here is a movie that he filmed 40 years ago and he was still raking it in. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. Later when he was driving he shifted his weight and this caused the trigger to be pushed back further and it went off and shot him and the bullet then also blew a big hole in the floor board of this truck. Post again when you buy a real gun that you can defend yourself with. In a world of "innovative" guns, this truly is an innovated design and a step in the right direction for the future of pistols. Each incident gives them more blood for their macabre dance, and another tic-mark for their context-free gun violence tally. SIG Sauer, a German weapons maker with its U.S. headquarters in Newington, N.H., issued a statement Friday in response to a CBC News report earlier this week that revealed the Nov. 5, 2020, incident and the fact the weapon, the SIG P320, had been withdrawn from service while the military conducts an investigation. They didnt have to, but did. PDs are dropping them from contracts. Asking for a friend. The company didnt want to comment on any specific pending litigation for obvious reasons. Canadian soldier. Police officers (maybe) do an annual qualification and thats it. 2) The p320 does have a half cocked notch. People who know how to handle guns prudently and safely. Too much MIM in that crap SIG, the old ones were great. This highly trained Fibbie was doing flips while dancing (breakdancing? The Moron engineer who decided to put that on the Glock should have been hung by his dirty balls. Liberal, Conservative. If it was so bad, why did the US Marines, who had the Glock, drop it in favor of the carry sized P320, the M18? I wont argue theyre wrong, I dont own one, dont want to. Thats SIGs term for a recall. My elderly aunt drove her Volvo into a parked car, and the yard behind it, and the house behind that, while she was pressing the brake as hard as she could. Strangely the car kept accelerating, almost as if she were flooring the gas pedal. I cant stand Glocks but SIG P320s are junk. The networks report didnt mention lawsuits filed by LEOs (or anyone else) against other gun makers claiming similar alleged design defects. In 1974 if you bought a Colt 1911, you left the gun store and then immediately took it to your favorite gunsmith and said Make it work it with Super-Vels, please. You cant get away with that today. No, it doesnt. Over the top, hammy and with incredible choleric energy, but as he once said, when you trying to seriously sell a scene that has space ship with obvious carboard walls, christmas lights and a guy in a rubber gorilla suit with a plastic horn on its head, if you play it lowkey youre dead the audience is gonna focus on how cheesy it all is. They did, however, note that when they were contacted by ABC, the company pointed out specific circumstances that were subsequently uncovered in the investigations of a number of these incidents. ALL OF THEM. 1) The p320 doesnt hold the striker fully to the rear. Anyway around here they do. And the idea some random comment section P320 hater thinks theyre smarter & more knowledgeable than the Army, Navy, Airforce, Coast Guard and Marine Corp combined regarding military pistol selection is just freaking laughable! The suit also cites other occurrences of "un-commanded" discharges with the 320 while holstered. Aug 25, 2021 pluong91 said: Hello all users that plan on making a P320 Accidental Discharge Threads -We love our P320's and have done the research when these articles and lawsuits came out, we don't need you to tell us, we have done our due diligence. Ever since the internet went mainstream I have read about the Sigs decline. Rather, it's because those LEO P320 pistols are seeing much more physical action than ones carried by civilians. U.S. lawsuits The Glocks lack of a manual safety has caused untold thousands of needless cripplings and death. Thats deflecting from the real issue. The cheap seats were $100-$200 and you got to watch Wrath of Khan with Shatner. And yes, if I pulled some of those stunts, Id have my membership revoked. What it likely means is that cops and other law enforcement officers carry and handle their guns far more often than the average Joe or Jane. To me it was unreal, $600 to ask a question about WOK and a picture. While we dont have the actual numbers of similar lawsuits filed against other gun makers actually no one individual or organization seems to keep track of these things and gun makers dont want to talk about it it seems highly likely that every major firearm manufacturer gets its share of a regular flow of lawsuits filed by both civilians and LEOs who claim SHAZAM! It upgraded its P320 pistols in October 2018, before the middle school incident, spokeswoman Amanda. Result: Sig P320 goes off when dropped and shoots people. The military is much smarter and no, the gun is not junk. In the case of the 320, lightning is striking the same place an awful lot. So it never had a history of a potential valid claim for ambulance chasers to work off of. Ill go so far as to say the first batch of Sig P320s did nothing wrong. Bravo. Well I jumped in bed with ma and pa , told them that the devil was in Arkansas. These lawsuits ARE about SIG making defective weapons. They both underwent full testing but while the Sig was the cheaper handgun ($1.50), it also quoted higher costs for magazines and spare parts, boosting the overall cost of the acquisition. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. They are being replaced with Glocks. With the redesign, you would have to implement a LOT of force to move the trigger backwards. They function as commanded every time. congrats. Happy with my old S&W revolvers, 3rd Gen S&W pistols,1911s and a slew of P226s. Charlton posted to the online commercial forum Canadian Gun Nutz, describing the CBC News piece as inaccurate and promising SIG Sauer would release a statement. Yes, its reliable, but no more so than most other major brands well known models. You clanging a bell that went silent years ago. Bagnell said he thinks the discharges are due to both design and manufacturing flaws on SIGs part. The fact is that the plaintiffs will get paid regardless of who did what. Glock is being sued too, because once loaded and a round is chambered, it also has a much lighter trigger than a DA/SA. Its pathetic how often these legal stunts work. And thats just my opinion. I know there are those who will vehemently disagree with me, and even disparage me but I have been following this issue from early on, BUT I recall CLEARLY that there have been dozens and dozens of discharges that could not be attributed to operator error and people experiencing these uncommanded discharges both before AND after getting the trigger upgrade. Two, the plunger may have a propensity to remain partially raised, or staged, instead of returning fully to its secure position, lessening the energy necessary to move it and thus allowing less effort to do so. I continue to bet my life on them. I lost $150 dumping that gun and Sig instead of acknowledging that it had a problem and calling it a recall, denied all and everything and called it a voluntary upgrade., At my LGS a P320 just went off when one of the guys put it the counter when he set up a target. And have the dropping 320 go off? (It wasnt my gun). I think making guns easy to shoot has gone too far. People of the Gun are probably familiar with the early problems the P320 had regarding drop safety. It was one of the first ones and was sent back as a voluntary upgrade. Such being the case, there very well may BE in inherent design flaw in the gun; We shouldnt just cast the thought aside as being beyond consideration and insist on blaming the problem on operator error.. Sigs are crap! If this were a car, a phone, a refrigerator, it would have been recalled long ago. That a pistol will be carried in a way it shouldnt (say, in a gym bag or a purse). Companies stay silent In this version, Bridge City Officer Brittany Hilton tells her story of what she says happened when her P320 discharged as she was carrying it in her purse in what appears to be a SERPA holster (which has had its own problems, but thats another story). Cars have so many electronics these days, who knows what could have gone wrong! I also have a manual safety. As a striker-fired pistol, the P320 is "under constant pressure to fire," Bagnell said. The P320 pistol is a dog. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. Sig can burn for all I care. It offers the quality and reliability of Sig Sauer, with a tried and true striker system and ingenious features that make it a novel gun. Have you ever put a handgun down with your palm in front of the muzzle? The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. Hilton has filed a $15 million lawsuit alleging the P320 has a serious design and manufacturing flaw. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM Plastic crap! As for the Serpa holster, this is a bunch of internet echo chamber BS that originated with Obama-era federal agencies putting a bad light on a good product in order to sway public opinion and thus damage the manufacturers bottom line. None of the current lawsuits appear to be in any way related to the now-fixed drop safety issue and most, if not all of the allegations seem to involve upgraded pistols or those produced after the drop safety problem was identified by SIG. Is it? Sig P320 Accidental Discharge 2021 Perhaps nothing speaks more clearly to the need for a total recall than the fact that in 2021, over four years after Sig Sauer offered its voluntary upgrade, people are still suffering injuries and lawsuits continue to be filed. Grow up, you aint all that! Quit blaming cops or the military, these guns have a serious problem. 3. Second, pardon us if were more than a little skeptical that the P320 in question or any other handgun fired when it was out of battery. SIG is choosing to litigate their problems away. These cops seem pretty dang stupid if they put loaded guns in gym bags and purses with other stuff and carry them around, especially a gun that lacks manual safeties. But hey, in ruthless, lawless, Capitalvania were life is considered cheap and expendable no one gives a shit, especially the Far Right that screams about abortions and then kills off the children that were not aborted with loaded guns laying around the house.
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